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Forum > Languages and Cultures > language, advantages, disadvantages.....
#0 language, advantages, disadvantages..... Mon 23 Oct 06 19:42:34
orangics
Köln
Germany
We all know after creating language, human being steped to a new version of
living.
From that moment ages have passed and now we are living in the modern or post
modern or...,with several hundreds of different languages.
Can you tell me your opinion about language itself, the variaties and its
advantages and disadvantages with any possible condition and any effects (to the
world, society, relation, culture, .....)

I dont make my question specific because I do need whatever you feel and think
about it.
Even if you say I asked a stupid question or whatever, I am willing to read it.
I do appreciate to read your idea here or to my email: orangics@yahoo.com.
Cheers
Arjang

Reply
#1 language, advantages, disadvantages..... Tue 24 Oct 06 13:39:38
couchista
Haarlem
Netherlands
Well your question vertainly is very unspecific...
Language (verbal and non-verbal) is the tool that we use for interaction with
other humans. And it is that interaction that gives us our identity as
individual human beings.
Reply
#2 language, advantages, disadvantages..... Tue 24 Oct 06 16:46:52
torstenphilipp
Dresden
Germany
he arjang,
.
thanks for asking. i am also thinking about language from time to time and
appreciate the exchange of thoughts on that topic.
.
generally i´d say language is magic. it can do miracles like to convince
somebody or to teach something. 
i don´t know too much about the relation between language and magic but i know
that the use of written words was part of magic rituals some thousand years
back.
unfortunatelly i don´t know where and when and who found that out.
but i just remember when writing right now, that in the fairytales many wizards
have books that contain magic words which can be used to turn a prince into a
frog for example. just with words, oh man, unbelievable. 
i think the magic of language can have effects that can be recognized both as
positive or negative. like spreading love or hate.
.
wish you all the best
torsten
.
p.s. what are your thoughts about language, arjang?
Reply
#3 language, advantages, disadvantages..... Wed 25 Oct 06 1:32:09
orangics
Köln
Germany
Hi!
First of all I want you to not to think I am against of language, as I am using
its benefits.
But also there are few things remain. 
Actually I asked the question very general to see what comes first to the mind?
and be open to every idea.
Some days ago I had a friendly discussion and I was told that the human being 
could start to think when he created the language.
This is something I am not agree with. Of course we can accept that the creation
of language made the activity of the brain and thinking faster, but we had to
think that we need it then to create it, dont we?
But then language was created and human being could communicate better, easier
and faster, but how much are we sure that the words we say is showing the real
thing we wanted to say, and how much they can show our identity?
how can we be sure our listener undrestands what we said? 
It is a magic yes I do agree but some times this magic makes so much trouble for
us, We do know the positive benefits and we all are gaining from its advantages
and no one is saying here that we should keep silence and not to talk any more.
But I feel that some how it effects in our life sometimes very negatively.
The problem is not the language but it is us.How to use it and how much relying
on it.
Just for example different languages: I, like many others learnt how to speake
my native tongue and how to protect it and which words are purely ours and which
one are not, and some how appreciate the first and not to like the next. After
many years this becomes a prejudice (like many things, Nationality,local
music,my history............)and This was not only me who had this feeling in
this world(Actually I am trying to get rid of it) . and so many problems and
critics rised from it.
As Torsten very nice mentioned "spreading love or hate"
It is like some other things human has created with dual positive and negative
aplications.
Nowaday by help of language we have the mass medias books, movies,and..... with
thousands of benefits and how many problems? all we know.
This was a part of impression I had, and I am thinking if there are other
possible ways to communicate with the others are exisiting. What and how?
What is the advantage of one language to the others? why we all are not using
the same language? 
I decided to listen to you friends too, to see it better

Thanx 
Arjang
 
Reply
#4 language, advantages, disadvantages..... Wed 25 Oct 06 13:05:56
couchista
Haarlem
Netherlands
Salam Arjang,
Please allow me to give a reaction to your post.
1. Originally, language was not 'created', language emerged. Animals use
language too, that is not exclusive to humans. The song of birds, the screams at
night of cats that want to reproduce, the howling of the wolves... our ancestors
used that kind of language and one element of our ongoing evolution is that one
moment human language became more complex and we got more conscient control over
it.
2. "How much are we sure that the words we say is showing the real thing we
wanted to say" well often enough we say the opposite of what we wanted to
express... that is in the case of irony. And when a mistreated child is scared
to tell at school that he was beaten, and therefore tells the misstress that he
fell from a fence. So NOT saying what we want to express is a normal and
integrated use of language. Also in some cultures it is considered to be
impolite to answer 'no' so the answer is always 'yes' even if the meaning is
'no'. Your other question is more important: "how can we be sure our listener
understands what we said? " We can only try to be sure about that by observing
the reaction of the other (not just the first verbal reaction). This is one of
the challenges of human life ;-) and one of the things that makes life such a
beautiful and interesting event.
3. Yes, language affects our life sometimes very negatively. Politicians and
religious leaders abuse of language and use it as a tool for manipulation. But
as you said correctly, 'the problem is not language, the problem is us". You can
use a rake for your field where you grow food, or you can use a rake for killing
someone. The same goes for language. But there is one thing that - in my opinion
- we all should always keep in mind. Apart from earthquakes etc., ALL misery and
injustice WAS CREATED BY HUMANS. This means that HUMANS have the power to
avoid/get rid of the behaviour that causes misery and injustice! In other words,
while  language is used for spreading hate, YOU have the possibility to use that
same language for spreading love! Never forget that people like Hitler (just to
mention one example of someone that understood the negative possibilities of
language) could not have done any big evil ALONE, he needed followers to really
make it happen. So never think "what can I do, I'm just one person...." because
the 'evil' forces in this world don't discourage themselves either with that
idea. 
3. You said "I, like many others learnt how to speake my native tongue and how
to protect it and which words are purely ours and which one are not, and some
how appreciate the first and not to like the next.". Well, I can not relate to
that. Here in The Netherlands we learn that Dutch is just one language of many,
and although we are not bilingual, we do learn at least English and probably
also German at school. We were never taught that "our" language (or any other
language) would be better than any other language. The 'street language' that
Dutch teenagers use nowadays, has at least 50% of Turkish, Arabic, Tamazigh and
Sranantongo words in it.
4. Are there other ways of communicating? Yes, but only if we get back to an
animal-style of life: say "grrrrrrrr" when you want to protect your territory,
and sing when you want to procreate. And that is not even another way of
communicating, it's still language. And keep in mind that language doesn't have
to be verbal; there are also sign language and body language.
5. What is the advantage of one language to another? Well, it depends of the
context. Lingala (spoken in parts of the two Congo's and a part of Angola) uses
one single word, 'lobi', for both 'yesterday' and 'tomorrow'. In other words, in
their context it is important that it is "not now". It is clear that that
language would not be good in an European context, because Europeans worship
their agenda ;-) An other example: in Inuit languages, there are some 40
different words for 'snow' because in their context it is important to
distinguisgh the different kinds of snow. And it seems to be natural that 'new'
languages are created, like eg. the 'verlan' version of French, because the
'official' French did not satisfy the needs of the French youth. There is no
universal language and there will never be.
I think you would enjoy reading the works of Noah Chomsky about language and
linguistics.
Khod'afez
Klaas
Reply
#5 language, advantages, disadvantages..... Thu 26 Oct 06 2:34:45
orangics
Köln
Germany
Dear Klaas (Hei! good Farsi!)
I am happy to read your massage, and I wuld like to open the case a bit more.
Thanx for catagorising the topics but I am not promissing to be able to follow
the same way untill the end, but I'll do my best.

1-Of course animals are signing to each other and language might have the same
original, but I dont think and I haven't heared animals are having grammers and
structures for their so called languages.
What I am talking about is the language with the system we are using today, even
the earliest days was similar but the past is past I am talking about the fact
of present time.

2-Lets not look at the questiones that simple, as the words and their
combination
can creat a world of different meanings and ofcourse misundrestandigs.
I am not a persion who can not believe in other people and suspicios always that
other people have some other purpose than whatever they say. I look at this
matter as a deep Psycological and of course Socialogical phenomenon.
Language is only a way to transfer your Ideas, mentality and many other
expressive things, and question will rise here! how much a person can know his
real feelings? then how much he can use the right words to express? how much the
audience capable to undrestand the meaning of those words? and at last how much
the audience can comprehent  the topic?
Please add to these process the option for the moments that people are talking
with another language which they learnt technically and not socialy.
I am sure any of us if search in our own, we will find the examples when we
explained something and our opponent undrestood different thing or the opposit
we undrestood something else, and consequences.....

3-I know Holland is a very civilized country and I know abit the system there
but what I was trying to express was about the gap is being made between human
kind, by the words of nationality, ethnicity, my culture,yours, my history, my
society,my language .......and these are taking people apart from eachother, and
bring them far .And this is not a new thing as we had this matter as long as we 
a so called ages of fire, civilization , or whatever is their names since
thousands years.
human being by these topics which are severals, start to compete with eachother
and fight and.....and dont you think we have this in so many places it thos
world.
I tried to name myself as the example to not to be impolite to anybody else.

I also can imagin why there are different languages created in the world as I
can guess you it too,(But I think same kind of animal but living in different
parts of the world without communicating with eachother are talking with the
same language, and a lion in India doesnt need t learn with African lion to
communicate in the London Zoo ;-)  ) but these difference of language, culture ,
....
harden communicating. ;look at your near by multi cultural society in Holland
with so many people from very different countries, but if they dont know the
local language what will happen to them?
I can see it in Germany too, and of course not only to them but also to the
society.

We are living in the world but with differences of culture, nationality and
language you are not belaong to all of the world only some part.
It is not a big difference if a person from country A goes to B or goes to Mars
he is more or less the same stranger.

Thank you for nice advice of Chamky's book I do try to read it, but  am not
talking about the beauties behind finding the roots of the different languages
which they are exists for sure but in the other hand...........

4-Another thing: I think Human is using language instead of brain (may be I am
doing the same now:-) and also instead of other ways of communication.
I can not talk about it so much as I think it is become a very strange personal
methods as we dont use so much other ways commonly to communicate and even you
can not communicate generaly.
and about those voices you mentioned every sounds which we dont know the meaning
of can voiced for us like grrrrrrrrrr or brrrrrrrrrr or whatever.

But the most important point here is I have found a friend who I could talk with

and learn from and pleasently communicate with.

Merci My friend
Khoda Hafez
 
Reply
#6 language, advantages, disadvantages..... Thu 26 Oct 06 13:42:00
zagreus
Guatemala
Guatemala
@ Couchista 

 Is understandable that orangincs is talking about " SERMO " or the greek "
LOGOS ": that means the " human faculty "; and not about " LINGUA "

1) Yes, the language belongs only to the " Human Beings ". Because Language in
itself is a concept, and a conception.  
 If you say that the animal " Comunication " ( and plants as well )  is a
language. You are impossing a abstract concept ( a stamp ) to something that
doesn`t has. This is like the wrong interpretation of the " natural law ". Law
is a human conception.
 The pheromonal communication of the ants is a langauge ????

 2 ) The " Concept " as primary foundation of the language ( abstract conception
) and of the " logic " as well, is not the REALITY in it-self, is just a "
VEROSIMILITUD " of the reality.

The quimic comunication is more exact and sure than the reasonal one, the
linguistic one. We are just a stupid ape losted in the world of the fantasies,
of the " concepts " !!!



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